Curse

Mithras · Nov 12, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

The most recent balance adjustments which affected how enemies react to Area of Effect (AOE) skills have disrupted, in my opinion, the enjoyment from playing Guild Wars especially when doing elite level missions in the Underworld and Fissure of Woe.

Of course everyone including myself has been trying variations of lightning and obsidian echo spikers, however there is without the inclusion of "echo nukers" a huge time discrepancy in completing higher level missions that borders on tedium.

If the point was to disenfranchise loyal players from considering new Guild Wars chapters because of continual adjustments which derail game strategies of experiened players that have supported this new franchise since the onset of the game....then arena net was successful.

Balance adjustments that dismantle game enjoyment is in fact an imbalancing act. Who can deny now that echo nukers are now immaterial? Considering that previously they had "nerfed" the air spiker chain lightning skills, what joy is there in playing an elementalist?

I would suggest reconsideration of the most recent AOE changes as they are overwhelmingly unpopular. Unhappy players are also unhappy clients/consumers of Arena Net. A pattern of change for the sake of balance may in the end undermine this exciting game from having successful future chapters.

Thank you for allowing us to voice our opinions.

Lord Iowerth · Nov 12, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandria Kotov

I know that most players out there would rather have the enemy AI just stand there and use soap in the Meteor Showers, and hold umbrella's in the fire storm, but... too bad.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD

I fell out of my chair I was laughing so hard when I read that, you just made my day.

Would you mind terribly if I told some friends not to drop the soap in the meteor shower?

Shinobi Quicksilver · Nov 12, 2005, 01:40 AM // 01:40

I think this update was BS, for instance it gives my warrior monk and ele no reason, so basically i wasted around 70hours of my time for a lost cause. It really ticks me off that they would even think about taking away griffon farm(thats what i made my warrior specifially to do). Well they better have some good excuses....

Koraschuth Lucifaan · Nov 12, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I'm hoping this is just the begining actually, that seeing the effect this change has had on the game they will continue to tweak it till they get it right. I can understand the "realism" of having enemys run from guys, but as someone else has mentioned it would make much more sence if they just ran when low on health. It gets too chaotic. Its almost not worth playing with the ele henchie anymore since she aggs everything in sight too. I for one have faith that Anet will keep working on this till its right. I just hope it doesnt take em too long

seraphite86 · Nov 12, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I like the idea, but nuking is made almost impossible. Enemies move around spastically even when snared. When they get knocked down, they just jump right back up. When enemies figure out their caught in a Meteor Shower or Maelstrom they will react in two ways: 1. Run somewhere else 2. Run at you. Not saying that no one would but I'm with Takeko Nakano on the fact that they move inhumanly quick away from danger. I have changed skills (good change of pace I guess) around numerous times, had some good setups had some awful setups. The update weakened a handful of the Elemetalist's skills.

For example, I tried builds outside Port Sledge on Grawl. I'll tell you. You aggravate one group, you aggravate everything else. I have never been "steam-rollered" by Grawl before. I would knock about ten of them down with an earthquake, cast Rodgort's Invocation, throw a Fireball, then get bashed in the face with already half of my henchmen team dead.

A good tweak is our best bet to make the game tolerable again.

Nocens Imperceptus · Nov 12, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

I don't mind the mosnters not chasing a person that far. It will tone down the massive amount you have to pay runners to get places or help to rid the game of runners in the first place, which is a larger money maker than farming as far as I've seen.

Running isn't playing the game. Its just like cheating really.. or buying money on ebay

coolsti · Nov 12, 2005, 02:02 AM // 02:02

I don't mind the idea of nuking the nuking, so to speak, and trying to make the AI enemy mobs more intelligent. But after an evening of playing with only henchies and with part human/part henchy groups, in my opinion, Anet now has a lot of tweaking to do to make the game play enjoyable again.

Playing with henchies has become incredibly difficult. Difficult to control the movements and actions of the henchies. I went out with Orion (mistake!) and did my usual technique of pulling out a few enemies at a time from a larger group. As soon as Orion let off his AOE spell, the enemy that I lured and which were being tanked by the henchy warriors, ran away, back towards the rest of the enemy mob. Only problem here is that the warrior henchies ran with them! Even though I quickly retreated. Result: two dead warrior henchies. They ran right into the remainder of the mob. This definitely needs some AI tweaking. The henchy warriors need to respond to a retreat by the human players much more quickly.

And I do find it annoying that now the enemy moves away from area spells a little too well. I mean, human players don't even move away from AOE spells as well as the AI enemy does now. This again needs a bit of tweaking, as now any battle which involves any kind of AOE spell (from mesmer, elementalist or whatever) results in a huge run-around, and one which is not very enjoyable in the long run. Targetting, for example, becomes nearly impossible with all the running around.

I approve the idea behind the patch, but much more tweaking and scripting is needed now!

lanfear · Nov 12, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

i dont think the patch was completly horrible, but i do think it needs some revising. coincidentaly, i have a nuker =P

Aeon_Xin · Nov 12, 2005, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocens Imperceptus

Running isn't playing the game. Its just like cheating really.. or buying money on ebay

Basicaly what I was saying, but i wouldn't go as far to say it's against the rules(which ebay is as far as i've read).

But, I'm sure some of the massive amounts of money that runners make end up on ebay. That is just speculation however.

Paying in game coin for running is little different than people merchanting advanced items to new players in Ascalon for big ingame coinage.

The update makes running easier, which means more people doing it, which means more price competition, hopefully. With what's already on ebay, i'm not sure you could decrease it by much, there are auctions for amounts up to and including 1million coin by the handfull with every step up from 100k.
(Edit, i left off with a half an idea here)
With running easier, it may decrease the easiness with which ebay sellers get their gold, or atleast decrease the amounts of gold.

Ebay aside, I believe making the maps more easily ran helps out quite a bit the newer players that don't necessarily like to play with a bunch of strangers, or who don't have guildmates running them around.

Torment · Nov 12, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

Well, maybe in other games it can, but in this one you can put a single player in the way and the AI will be unable to navigate around it. Many a ghostly hero has been stuck this way.

(Sorry, I know it's a little off topic, but since we're talking about AI here, might as well put in another point about how bad it is at navigating dynamic obstacles

)

I disagree here completely. I was playing last night after the patch and my W/Mo and a buddies W/Mo had a baddie trapped (or so we thought) between a hillside, tree and us. The creature simply ran THROUGH the tree. When we gave chase we were able to do the same.

Now, you decrease the effectiveness of the Nuker AoE. Well that would be alright, if you could trap them, not easy in and of itself. But now, you think you have them trapped and they escape with that kind of BS, as a meteor shower was being cast....I had to turn off the computer before I broke it.

That would have been bad, me and three of my friends get together every weekend in his basement to play. Who needs TS, hehe. But I don't wanna break something that isn't mine. Even though my friend was about to do the same thing.

The Son Of Morgoth · Nov 12, 2005, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnybegood

well im glad most people liked the idea of the patch.

really now? why dont u check on ur numbers.........majority wants to go back to way it is.

Seta Fury · Nov 12, 2005, 02:12 AM // 02:12

The worst part about this update is AOE in general...I have 2 accounts and have 2 eles, 2 wars, and 2 monks...which are practically useless now in their roles. I mainly farmed to gain skill points and purchase skills for various characters...but I guess now I have to go grind various missions over and over again to gain the xp and gold now. I've played this game since it first came out...yes I had a prot. bond UW farmer...of course that was nerfed I was fine with that...they made some smiting spells take longer to cast...that was fine. This time after changing and adapting to their changes...I don't think I wanna adapt. I just wish they would work on putting more ingame missions/quests or some kinda special event about every week...just quit with the skill balance and crap. The skills were fine the way they were.

Gwenhywar · Nov 12, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocens Imperceptus

Running isn't playing the game. Its just like cheating really.. or buying money on ebay

Uh, running is as much a part of the game as farming, playing through missions, buying&selling stuff for profit, doing high-end PvP, etc ... to each his own

.

I just don't appreciate to see that the recent changes are geared SO much towards runners, and basically every other aspect of PvE is screwed over. While I would prefer to just do PvP, it is not always possible due to the high level of organization required for 8v8 matches. Therefore I don't understand why ANet is trying to prohibit me to spend my free from PvP gaming time farming?

Arcien Trueflight · Nov 12, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I don't really know what the hell Anet was thinking when they put this in, because they just nerfed half the spells in Guild Wars. As if the enemies didn't have enough of an advantage already, now we can't even damage them without them running around like crackheads who've lost their stash. Come to think of it, Anet's probably the guys who stole the stash, because this patch is probably the most worthless thing since George Bush took office. 3 out of my 4 characters, my new monk especially, are worthless now, because there's no way I'm getting her out of Old Ascalon without Symbol of Wrath. Thanks Anet. Thanks a lot.

Aeon_Xin · Nov 12, 2005, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torment

I disagree here completely. I was playing last night after the patch and my W/Mo and a buddies W/Mo had a baddie trapped (or so we thought) between a hillside, tree and us. The creature simply ran THROUGH the tree. When we gave chase we were able to do the same.

Now, you decrease the effectiveness of the Nuker AoE. Well that would be alright, if you could trap them, not easy in and of itself. But now, you think you have them trapped and they escape with that kind of BS, as a meteor shower was being cast....I had to turn off the computer before I broke it.

That would have been bad, me and three of my friends get together every weekend in his basement to play. Who needs TS, hehe. But I don't wanna break something that isn't mine. Even though my friend was about to do the same thing.

Thank you, that's part of the point I was making.
The AI know's what's actually an obstacle as far as the map goes. Many trees can be shot/ran through while others cannot. The human eye doesn't have that advantage.

You can use ten trees to your advantage, using whatever skills aren't blocked(non projectile, like some mesmer life drainers), while AI archers plunk away hitting only the tree. Yeah, you're pinned in but they're losing life from drains.

Then on that dreadful eleventh tree, 4 AI archers on the other side, you die almost before you've cast a thing, when you could've shot through the tree yourself and done a good bit of damage.

Priest_Ezekiel · Nov 12, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

I voted against this patch. I have already made builds to defeat the new run away from AoE, but why fix what isn't broken? change it back

The Son Of Morgoth · Nov 12, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcien Trueflight

I don't really know what the hell Anet was thinking when they put this in, because they just nerfed half the spells in Guild Wars. As if the enemies didn't have enough of an advantage already, now we can't even damage them without them running around like crackheads who've lost their stash. Come to think of it, Anet's probably the guys who stole the stash, because this patch is probably the most worthless thing since George Bush took office. 3 out of my 4 characters, my new monk especially, are worthless now, because there's no way I'm getting her out of Old Ascalon without Symbol of Wrath. Thanks Anet. Thanks a lot.

Exactly........you know we should make a poll...............if a net does not reverse this update soon how many of use will stop playing gw?

Numa Pompilius · Nov 12, 2005, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Wow, amazingly even poll. It's 47% vs 48% right now, and the difference is in fact less than 1%...

Having played more, I agree that 1) one-hit AoE shouldn't cause mobs to run, and 2) snares shouldn't cause mobs to run from you, 3) mobs should react to AoE a bit slower (after a second, say), 4) and the "spastic" reaction should be toned down, because the mobs move around so randomly the movement prediction screws up (ie the mobs seem to teleport around).

But this is all minor "tweaking", and I hope ANet will fix these minor issues soon.

quickmonty · Nov 12, 2005, 02:21 AM // 02:21

First .... thanks for the poll

I think this new update sux for several reason.

meteor shower ... take a 25 energy skill that takes 5 sec to cast and causes exhaustion and make it almost entirely useless. Notice I said "almost". It is still good for knocking down a single target for the duration of the spell. All the rest of the mobs scatter as you are taking that 5 seconds to cast.

fire storm ..... completely useless. Just remove it from the game.

I've switched to a combo of fire and air that works quite well. Just takes two to three times as long to bring down mobs. Can anyone say "grind"?

Henchmen AI ..... Great! Now they chase fleeing mobs and aggro more mobs.

Mob AI .... No longer able to control the battle by using "tanks" to block for the "squishies". The mobs are all over the place. Most of the time it's just a wild melee. So much for battlefield tactics.

Joke of the day ..... Zealot's Fire. Heal yourself and watch the mobs run away. ROFL!

Anyway .... that's my $0.02

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS. After waiting patiently for chapter 2, I have now decided that I will NOT purchase it!

Dacrackhead · Nov 12, 2005, 02:21 AM // 02:21

To make a Nukers Skills useless is kind of dumb. What if they made Necros max at one Bone Field or Minions at a time thare would be alot of Pi$t off necro's